peter donegan, dr martin & president of ireland mary mc aleese
I wanted the mini proofs here – but due to copyright I [wisely] left them out.
As most know, when President Mary stopped by my Garden in Bloom – the photography wasn’t the greatest. It turns out some amazing professional photographers were there. I eventually got contact details for one of them. [name of photographer deleted].
I thought he’d send me on a photograph… I only wanted one for my office wall & the blog.
I emailed him:
A Chara David,
Great to meet you at the show and thank you so much for taking the time too introduce yourself. If there’s any chance of photographs of President. Mary McAleese that would be great. Coffees on me neighbour !!
David replied:
Please find attached the contact sheet of shots taken with President – Please let me know if you wish for any copies – if you do which numbers – Hard copy (Photographic Print)or digital – if digital what usage you require (for Licence) Web use only or Web/Editorial use – when i have this information i can quote you a cost – Hope the show went well for you
I replied:
probably just one for my wall – the 3rd one seems to be the best[?] – digital hi-res probably[?] the best wouldn’t mind putting one on my weblog for the craic as a final note on bloom just passed. hope i don’t need to remotgage the house???!! good response but without a main sponsor it was a toughie! all the same at least Mary and co. stopped to say hi this year!
He replied:
The cost for 10×8 color Print is ? 60.00 each to include p+p The cost for 6mgb j-peg Digital File High res (to include multi-use Licence ) is ?110.00 These costs exclude Vat @ 21% If you want to go ahead i will generate an invoice and send it to you as soon as i receive payment i will send the image on to you.
I was emailed [click here] regarding photographers rights – but to be honest, it’s not the money, nor the technicalities of all things legal; more being polite or gentleman like. I’ve worked with [really cool] photographers before. A lady passing may say ‘oh do you mind taking a pic [etc]‘; S/he would do and send it on, because it’s nice to do so… especially if that picture will end up in the newspapers the next day…
Whatever happened to the days of old where one wasn’t afraid to borrow a bowl of sugar [without an invoice arriving in the post]… ? I know business is business… but I’d still like a photograph for my wall.
It’s cold hearted business I’m afraid. I completely understand your frustration with the high price quoted, but just for a moment think about what the photo represents.
It’s you with the President of Ireland in 2008. Her name will go down in history. Your decedents will learn about her in their history books.
That’s why that photographer was there. He caught a special photo of you that will provide enjoyment and stories for you and your family for (possibly) years to come. TBH, I don’t think 60 Euro for an 8×10 is excessive.
Selling event photos to the punters who attended is the bread and butter of some photographers and a photograph on the wall is just another product for sale.
Ask David for a quote on a low res watermarked image for your blog. Anything less than 500px wide isn’t worth printing but would go nicely on a blog post, and good exposure for the photographer.
Donncha,
if the photo was of the President or Bono etc. alone. I would agree. or If I was at the lovely ladies competition and I was told 10 euro etc [or whatever] I can understand that.
But if a photographer without consent takes pictures with/ out someone and then suggests a fee then – I dont query the business acumen – but more the chivalry.
Regarding the cost. Its not the money. I know we/ businesses must charge at some point – but – i think there is also a point were being courteous is just that.
I was in the photo. I didn’t hire the photographer. It is business not pleasure and money is the name of the game. But there should be a balance. I’m not in anyway intending to be offensive to any person/ business. But I did buy 3 trees lately to give to a man who gave me 2 chickens. not because he asked – they were free – I wanted to.
Many thanks David. Sincerely, appreciated.
peter
I do see your point, it can seem like a lot of money but then look at it from his point of view. He probably wasn’t paid much if anything for being there and needs to make his money back through the prints that he sells. A shot with the President will be one of the ones he worked hardest to get on the day. You would be paying for his efforts and expertise in getting what you couldn’t get yourself. That was his whole reason for being there whether you hired him to provide the service or the venue did. If he gave out free or cheap prints to everyone he took photos of at the events he covers then he would be working for free.
Having said that, whether this is a good business model now that everyone has digital cameras and the perception of photography has changed…well that’s a debate that rages on
A Chara Claire,
point well made and taken. I dont believe that my perception has changed, that of photographers because of digital.
To this issue; if a photographer is [possibly] going to ‘make money’/ owns the copy right to the pictures of my face… money aside – if I was selling pics of your garden into magazines and you asked me for a copy – as the beach boys say – wouldn’t it be nice…
That said I have asked for and will pay for. The question was always ‘wouldn’t it be nice’. Wouldn’t it?
Go raibh míle maith agat
peter
Well Peter,
I have learnt a lot from this debate, and to be honest I would have been one of those Mr Nice Guys beforehand, but I am starting to wonder weather I have been foolish the past 3 years. I have always been the sort of photographer that has allowed images of mine to be used free of charge, if someone asks me and it will not be used for commercial purposes. And this has happened to me a lot.
I guess the difference between me an the photographer you are dealing with is he is a professional, I am not, I have an income doing the job I do, whereas he has to make money from the photos he takes.
I agree with everything Donncha and Claire said, and to be honest I would be foolish not too, these 2 know what they are talking about, but you have a major celeb at your side he is going to monopolise on it, and as Donncha says it is a once in a lifetime photo that will pass through the generations, unfortunatley it kinda is worth the money, if a bit steep.
Good luck with it and I look forward to seeing the shots online sometime soon.
A Chara McAwilliams,
on the record it is only that, a debated issue. And as I have said, I’m sure he is a genuine good guy and a fanatstic photographer by all accounts. I also agree it is a photograph for the hall of fame.
I had an opportunity to have one taken with Mary Robinson when it was her time, when I lived and studied in Kilkenny – but I was [some might not believe] too shy and missed my chance….
point well made and appreciated
slán agus beannacht
peter
Ah well, that’s slightly different. If he was selling a photograph of you to magazines and making money that way (through advertising, etc) then he would need your permission to do so. In this case, that particular photo is only going to make money for him if you buy it. No offense! It’s a lovely photo
In the case of you giving a copy of a photo of someone’s garden that you are using in magazines the difference in that case is that the product you’re selling is the garden…not the photo. I presume you wouldn’t landscape the garden for free
I do sympathise, I’m just trying to show the other side of the coin…that of the jobbing photographer. Personally when I’m doing a job like this I structure things differently so I’m not depending on the sale of prints to make my money but that wouldn’t be the traditional way of doing things and has its own difficulties.